Kurt Loder: You win three Grammys and you're backstage, and they're really milking the Album of the Year award, and you're standing there.
What are you thinking when you hear, "Steely Dan"?

Eminem: [laughs]

Kurt Loder: Have you ever heard of that before? Steely Dan?

Eminem: I heard it back when I was little.
I didn't know I was gonna grow up and have 'em beat me.
I didn't really come to the Grammys to collect trophies.
I came to make an impact, I came to make a statement, and I guess to piss some people off.

Kurt Loder: What was the statement you were trying to make?

Eminem: The statement I was trying to make - it got blown.
We were trying to keep it under wraps that I was going to perform with Elton [John], but the rumor came about and it got so full-blown that it wasn't a surprise anymore, so I think the biggest impact came in seeing us onstage together.

Loder: How did this come together, you and Elton John? Were you aware of what he said last summer, that he really loved your album?

Eminem: Yeah, I started doing interviews, and people that were interviewing me over in the U.K. started talking about it to me and bringing it up, and it's like, "What do you think about Elton John saying this and that about you," and I was like, "He did?"
Then I read the articles where he was actually, you know, had my back on stuff, and it was cool. I was like, OK.
I really respect Elton.
I didn't know he was gay, I didn't know anything about his personal life, I didn't really care.
But you know, being that he was gay and he had my back, I think that it made a statement in itself, [his] saying that he understood where I was coming from.

Loder: So what happened when you and Elton met? I guess you met on Monday or something.

Eminem: Yeah, [when] we did the rehearsal.

Loder: Did he say, "Here's what I'm gonna do"?

Eminem: Nah, we didn't even really discuss it.
We said "What up" and I thanked him for sticking up for me in the press, and then we just got down to the rehearsal.
He played his piano and started singing, and I came in and started rapping, and it was it.

Loder: Is there a message intended - you, and Elton John as a gay man, and the two of you together?
I mean, was there ... were you trying to say something along those lines?

Eminem: Well, people on this album, when it came out - and I think you were the first person to ask me the question on the front porch of my own house: Was I homophobic? - and that whole thing came about from the original version of "My Name Is." ... You said something [in] reference to my lyrics in that song, which ended up getting changed anyway, because the person we sampled [for "My Name Is"] was a gay living in South America now, and in order to use that sample, which I wanted to use so badly, I had to change my lyrics about the English teacher in junior high or whatever.
Which I thought was f---ed up, but you know, whatever, we wanted the sample.
So you had asked, and various people starting asking me in interviews: Am I homophobic? And I really didn't understand where their question was coming from.
I'm like, here I am, somebody who came from getting picked on for what I looked like and for who I am, and I'm thinking I'm sticking up for people who get picked on for what they look like, and my first reaction, naturally, was, "All right.
If somebody's going to back me into a corner, all right, f--- it, I hate faggots." You know what I'm saying?

Loder: So you're just doing it for the shock value?

Eminem: My answer was, "Fuck you, all right, if that's what you want me to be, then I'm going to be that to the fullest."
And that's what I've always been about.
It's like, if somebody backs me into a corner, that's what I'm going to tell you ... my first instinct, my first reaction is gonna be, "Fuck you.
If you think I'm an a--hole and that's your first impression of me, then that's what I'm going to be to the fullest."

Loder: At this point, it's been a long year with this record.
Every time something comes up where people are angry about something in this culture, your name is brought up into it.
Are you tired of it? Do you think it's a bad rap?
Or do you understand where the gay activists say the word faggot is like the word n-----?

Eminem: No, it's not.

Loder: You don't think so?

Eminem: No, it's not. Watch the Blaze Battle on HBO.
I don't know if you're familiar with it, but the Blaze Battle that aired on HBO earlier this year was what I came up in.
MCing and trying to degrade the first person that was in your face, saying something to you, you had to say something back.
I guarantee you the word "faggot" was used at least 10 times in the Blaze Battle, which is an MC battle, which is where I came from the underground.
The first reaction to degrade a man and strip him of his manhood is to call him a faggot.
It doesn't necessarily mean you're gay or whatever, it's just trying to say the lowest, most degrading thing you can say to somebody who's in your face.
You try to strip them of their manhood. You're basically - what you're calling them is a little girl.
You know what I mean? "You're not a man, you can't stand up to me, you little girl." You try to strip them of their manhood.
If you watch that, I guarantee it was used at least 10 times. "Faggot."

Loder: Do you think it's something you'll pursue on your next record? Do you think you've said all you have to say along these lines?

Eminem: I guess I'll know that when I sit down with an ink pen.
But as far as this album, this last album - I mean, I said that I raped my mother on the album, and I said that I killed Dre on this album.
So I've said a lot of sh-- on this album, and the first thing that was attacked was the gay sh--, the gay references on the album.

Loder: Ten years ago, Axl Rose of Guns N' Roses put out a song that said, "Police and n-----s, get out of my way"

Eminem: I remember that.

Loder: - and then [Rose] said, "Well, 'n-----' doesn't mean 'black person' to me."
He was kind of pardoned for it at the time.
I mean, n----- [has] a sort of specific meaning.

Eminem: I think that's a whole different category.
I can't speak for Axl Rose; I don't know anything about his life and how he was brought up.
But me, of course, it's not a secret now.
My life, my upbringing is in the public [eye] constantly.
People know how I was raised and whatever.
So I do black music, and there's no escaping it, no matter how big I get or whatever.
This is where I came from and this is what I do, and I'm not going to deny that.
So that's a word I don't use by choice.

Loder: Do you see how - to press this point - how gay people may feel that "faggot" to them is just as bad as "n-----" would be to a black person?

Eminem: Not really.

Loder: Why not?

Eminem: Just because of the situations I was brought up in.
Just as - as coming from, like I told you, coming from an underground MC, that's a word that flies about so freely that it's just like it's trying to strip somebody of their manhood.
And I use a lot of other words on the album, I mean, on this last album especially.
I kill myself on the record, I talk about fat people. Where's the organization that's going to come after me, Fat People Anonymous? You know what I mean?
I think that what it really boils down to is that people needed something to bitch about, and they were tired of Marilyn Manson.
So I think they kind of locked in on me.

Loder: When you came up to get the first Grammy, you thanked everybody who saw the album for what it was and looked past what it wasn't, which is interesting.
What do you think this record represented?

Eminem: I think this record represented freedom of speech.
Being able to say what you want to say.
Artistic expression. ... I know when I sit down with a pen - whatever I'm feeling at that moment - and I've always got the urge to go into the studio to record it right then while I'm feeling it, to, I guess, capture the emotion or whatever.
That's what I do, and if a song comes out, I want to put it out.
It's how I feel at the time. It's different, if you listen to a Tupac record, you might hear him contradict himself a lot.
He might have anti-violence lyrics in one song, in "Keep Ya Head Up," and talk about sticking up for women, and in another song he might be saying, "bitch, ho," you know what I mean?
If you listen to a Tupac record, you hear different emotions and expressions and moods he was going through in his life.

Loder: If you follow an artist's career, doesn't an artist resolve those contradictions?
Isn't that what art is about - so that you resolve those contradictions, so you have like one line of thought?
Do you think you were angry about the same things before the record came out a year ago?

Eminem: No. I'm totally angry about different things now.

Loder: Is it possible to sell 8 million records and still be really, really angry?

Eminem: It is, of course it is. I mean, if you mean to the effect of "I've sold a lot of records and now I've got a lot of money and I've made a name for myself so I should be satisfied," it's not true.
Because now it's not even about the money.
It's about music. If I sold 100 million records and had all the money in the world, I would still love to do what I'm doing.
I still wouldn't ... quit just because, OK, I'm not in this for the money and I said that in the beginning and I'll say that 'til the day I die.
No matter how much money - if I succeed in this business or I don't, [if I] fail miserably - I'm still going to love to do this.
If I'm recording in a big studio or I'm recording on an 8-track making demos, I'm still going to love to do this music.
It's what I love the most, is making the music.

Loder: The Marshall Mathers LP is coming from one place.
I'm just wondering if you've moved on at all over the course of the last year.
Are you a different person at all?

Eminem: I think so. I think that I've experienced a lot this year, this past year and a half, since the album came out.
I think I've went through a lot in my personal life and I've - I think I've matured a lot and grown, which, I guess if you're a true artist, that's what you're going to do; that's what you're supposed to do.
So I think people definitely hear a difference - what's the word I'm looking for? - not necessarily a different me, but a more mature [me]. I think people will see my growth as far as [being] an artist.

Loder: To get back to the Grammys for a minute, how did they treat you back there?
I mean, you're back there, Christina Aguilera was there, Carson Daly was there.
'NSYNC was there. Did you run into them backstage?

Eminem: No. I don't really care about all that.
I was just back in the dressing room, just with my people, just doing what we normally do.

Loder: Have you sort of passed that whole teen-pop thing? The Britney, Christina...

Eminem: I mean, yeah, of course, I still think it's corny, but I'm not mad at 'em anymore.
I think the main reason I attacked it in the first place is because I was classified in that group and I wanted to make sure, make certain, that people knew that that's not what I'm about.
That's not what category I should be classified as.

Loder: Did you hear any of Jon Stewart's stuff out there?
The guy that was hosting the show?

Eminem: I just heard about it coming on the way here.

Loder: He said, "I saw Eminem backstage, and he's so gay."

Eminem: Yeah. No, he didn't see me backstage.
And when he did see me backstage, I made a comment about it, and he said, [mimicking Jon Stewart] "I don't hate you, man, I was in the moment and da da da da da."
Whatever. I said, "I'm a fan of you, dude. Don't let me down."

Loder: So you won't be going off to the bathroom with George Michael or anything?

Eminem: I heard about that too.
It's funny. It's like, how can I be mad at that when I sit around and I poke at everyone anyway?
It's like you can dish it out, but you can't take it. I can take it.
But he knows what time it is.

Loder: You thanked a lot of people tonight, but you didn't thank Kim, your wife. Are you guys together?

Eminem: Ah, I wouldn't even I don't want to comment on that. But I did thank my little girl.

Loder: Yeah.

Eminem: I thank her every day. Every day I wake up, I thank her.

Loder: Now that you've got these Grammys, what are you going to do with them?

Eminem: What am I going to do with them?

Loder: Well, you've got a couple already. What've you done with them? Are they holding up doors?

Eminem: [laughs] Last year when I had won the two Grammys, I kept one and I gave the other one to Paul, my manager.
He was like, "Since you don't care about them, can I have one of them?" I was like, "OK, go ahead, I don't care."
But I've got this trophy case at home that I try and keep my accomplishments in, just so that Hailie can see these things when she gets older and realizes that Daddy wasn't just gone just to be gone, you know what I mean?
So I'll probably put them in my trophy case, I guess.

Loder: I mean, does it feel good to get that stuff? It's not a bad thing, right?

Eminem: It's definitely not a bad thing. I definitely love the fact of getting recognized for my talents, for being able to do what I do, but I'm not really in it to get trophies or awards.
The main thing I started this whole career, based [it] on, was acceptance and respect.
So I guess if trophies mean respect, it's cool, I'll take it, but my most important thing to me and anybody around me will tell you is getting a Quotable in The Source, a Hip-Hop Quotable, or something.
My street credibility means everything to me. If that's taken away from you, you have no foundation to fall back on.

Loder: Did you worry about that in doing this thing with Elton John, because he's so pop, it's sort of like moving to this pop thing?

Eminem: No, I just wanted to piss people off.

Loder: Do you think you succeeded?

Eminem: We'll see tomorrow, in the papers, I guess.

Loder: The big hug will be in the paper tomorrow, and of course you flipped everybody off.
What was the message there?

Eminem: Oh, I did, didn't I? What was the message there?
Um ... the message there. You mean hugging Elton John.

Loder: Well, and flipping everyone off.

Eminem: The whole meaning behind it was homophobic ... now what? F--- you. Say something else about me.

Loder: Do you think about where you can take what you do as an art as it matures?
Do you see where you want it to go and what you want it to become?

Eminem: I don't know. I can't really say where I see it going or where I want it to go.
I want it to grow with me as I grow as a person, but I don't have any plans about what I'm going to be rapping about five years from now, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't really look at it like that. I just take it in stride, and whenever something happens to me in my personal life, I always tend to write about it, and that's how I blow off steam.
That's just the direction I'm going to take it - as long as I'm in the music business and writing songs — is just taking everything in stride and seeing where it leads me.
I don't have any immediate plans. I mean, maybe 10 years from now, I might want to be sitting behind a board producing music without me rapping on it or making appearances in it, and this and that. Kind of like Dre does.
You know, sit back and just run shit.